采访人：张致君
录音：常坤 语音整理：林小龙 背景资料整理：陈婷
责任编辑：罗志飞 翻译：吕峰
谢长发先生是中国民主党党刊《在野党》杂志复刊推动人，是《在野党》荣誉主编之一。本期采访人和《在野党》杂志一起走进谢长发先生的民主道路，体味其中的艰辛历程。
1998年中国民主党创党，他作为中国民主党湖南地区负责人，为推动多党竞争、呼吁政治改革与民主选举各处奔走。后因其行动活跃，2009年中共当局使用“颠覆国家政权”罪名判其服刑13年，谢长发先生是中国民主党案判刑最多、拒不认罪、不减一天刑的政治犯。
在九八年中国民主党的组党运动中，谢长发先生冲在最前面。他串联各地，参与座谈，组织游行，申请注册。仅仅在湖南，被判刑的就有佟适东、廖石华、张善光、柏小毛、何朝晖、李旺阳等人。他侥幸逃过了第一次搜捕，之后，谢长发先生毅然挑起了中国民主党湖南筹委会负责人的重担。
零八年春节，由于有七、八个省市的民运朋友与会，受到长沙“国保”严厉地警告。他策略性地放弃了主持这次团拜会，唯一的目的就是希望为自己赢得自由空间，去推动建设和组织中国民主党全国“一大”的召开。
在中国，从事民主运动必须具有牺牲精神，而谢长发先生是以百分之百精力投身进去的。他甘于清贫，受他接济的民运朋友不下百人，款项不下十万。
记者与谢长发先生连线采访，赫然可见一位鹤发童颜精神矍铄的老先生侃侃而谈，监禁并未销磨掉他身上的英雄气质，交谈中似乎又再见到了中国民主党组党时期那位英姿飒爽的青年，孑然一身朗朗前行的样子。
（图为记者与谢长发先生视频，视频中一直有干扰）
张致君：谢老先生，安康！您现在是《在野党》杂志的荣誉主编，您也是复刊的主要推手之一。请问你是如何看待《在野党》的？
谢先生：我们要想进入一个真正的民主制度社会，就必须要有自己的理论刊物。理论知识就是一座灯塔，《在野党》就提供这样的思想，它会照亮中国人前行的道路，给未来的可能性指明方向。
张：您在国内的时候看过早期《在野党》刊物吗？
谢：看过，朱虞夫把杂志给过我。当时就觉得太好了！中国民主党作为要和中国共产党竞争的党，就必须有自己的刊物，就是在理论上有了基础。
张：谢先生，中国民主党湖南省筹备委员会成立的时候，你是如何一个心路历程？
谢：我当时跟浙江、 湖南、湖北、上海、北京、贵州这些各地负责人私下达成了一些协议，一定要勇敢建党。1998年，因为我在外面比较活跃，我们就顺势组建了湖南民主党， 我们向湖南省民政厅去递交了成立中国民主党湖南省筹备委员会的申请。当时我们4个人去的，我、还有北航的教授、长沙大学的、还有一个湘潭大学的。
张：您在组党的时候做过很多推动组党进程的事情，比如各地串联，您觉得是什么锻造了您的这种能力？
谢：83年的时候，我在长沙钢厂任助理工程师期间，成立了“良友社”。我用毛笔字写过“良友”两个大字做招牌，那时候就有20多位民主人士联合在一起。良友会就是为了寻找志同道合的战友，一起旅游和交流，在良友会期间我逐渐学会组织能力。组织能力很重要，但前提是一定要有很好的人品，否则是得不到别人的认可的。这样的结社生活是为组建党派奠定基础的，组党和结社是一个道理。
张：是哪些因素让您意识到中国的制度问题，从而让您走上民主之路的？
谢：在中南大学读书期间，我一直考虑的问题就是：“根据《中华人民共和国宪法》第二条，中华人民共和国的一切权利属于人民。第三十五条，中华人民共和国国民享有出版、言论、集会、结社自由。我们是第一个按照宪法申请的注册组党的，尝试着做筹备委员会，但是中国共产党不守信用，欺骗我们。我研究历史比较多，我懂得“信，国之保也，民之所平也”不守信用的国家是会出大问题的。
张：您因为声援“89”学生，也被判过2年劳教，当时在1989年的时候，您是怎么反对中共对学生镇压的？
谢：1989年2月28日，由长沙市委组织部到各个工厂抽调工作人员去扶贫。我是以工程师的身份被抽调到浏阳市官渡镇扶贫。我经常听美国之音的报道，能够获取外界的信息，1989年6月4号上午，当我听到北京的“枪声”，我就意识到可能要开始革命了。早上七点多，我带着自己的身份证、工作证到浏阳市高中，学校里有我认识的七、八个男学生，我亮出我的工作证，告诉、鼓励他们“现在北京已经镇压学生运动了，我们要奋起反抗，因为我们也是学生”。
张：您单单只是鼓励他们站出来然后您就被抓了吗？共产党又是怎么发现您在做这个事情的？
谢：那些学生自发捐钱买笔、墨、纸，在官渡镇的街上写了很多标语“反对镇压学生运动”、“反对专制”等等。12月16日长沙市国家安全局的一個科長和副科長就在我厂里将我带到长沙市第一看守所。判了两年劳教，抓我的科长叫罗海蛟。
张：在劳教所里面经历过事情让你特别难忘吗？
谢：根据当时的制度，他们把我在之前工厂工作的工资私自克扣了之后给我减刑，这是一种贪污行为。当时我们这个监室有四十五个来自全国各地的政治犯，其中也有大学教授，对于我们的劳教相对于宽松，我们只需要工作半天，但是另外的违法乱纪的整天都需要工作。
张：后来您第二次入狱的十三年中是否有遭到过虐待？
谢：狱警看过我写的文章，他佩服我，对我的待遇还可以。我在里面也受到外界各方资助，一直有人在外面声援，有钱就可以在监狱里面买饭。再者，我会为人处事，里面的人就都待我不错，在刚进去的时候，被扇过我耳光。
在湖南省赤山监狱服刑期间，被一个名叫刘宏的当班狱警用塑料板打在我的头部，虽然不是很重，但行为是恶劣的。为此，我弟弟还在岳麓山的云麓宫举横幅，也在监狱大门前举横幅，横幅内容“单挑恶狱警刘宏！”。由于我弟弟的勇敢行动和外界的声援，据说监狱长和那个恶狱警刘宏都被调走了，他们是否受到处分不得而知。
我认识的另外一个邵阳的李旺阳，被虐待到耳聋眼瞎。经济状况好一点的，在里面生活就会稍微好一点，经济状况不好的，在里面受不了的就有割腕自杀的。
张：您组党被捕的时候，心理上是个什么样的状态？
谢：我的心态还是很好的，佛家语说“我不下地狱谁下地狱”，既然要走这条路，我心理早有准备。我第一次被劳教，在劳教所的时候有一个干部就很欣赏我写的一段话“如果一个优秀的政党没有强有力的机构去监督他的话，这个优秀的政党总要腐化堕落的”、“一个不让人说真话的政党，终会坍塌的”。我做的是正确的事，无怨无悔。
张：听朱虞夫老先生说您当年把您做生意赚的钱都投入到民主运动的事业当中去了。
谢：1999年的时候我就开始做点小生意，我到全国各地鼓励别人，自己跑了26个省市地区。我在大学时期是学轧钢专业的，所以我就用自己的专长很有信心到全国去推销。利用推销的机会就到这些地区讲政策，讲建党。干大事就要不辞辛劳，吸引人才就要像滚雪球一样越来越大，我们要把握历史的时代潮流。
张：中国共产党当时判您13年就最大的主要对您的指控是什么？
谢：说是颠覆国家政权。共产党看到我集结那么多人、跑了那么多地方。1999年到2008年6月我是比较隐蔽的去做这些事。
张：这将近横跨十年的时间他们一直都不知道您做的事？
谢：之前共产党是不知道我做的这些事的，早些年我在甘肃认识一个叫王凤山的，他当时也是个大学生，但是他的哥哥是哈尔滨的市委书记，王凤山告诉我他认识的一个叫岳天祥的也是因为煽动颠覆国家政权罪被判了十年，我就邀请他们6月8号到长沙来玩。当时来的有王凤山、他的哥哥、岳天祥。我们在吃饭聊天的时候，我就跟他们聊了一些民主党准备召开“一大”会议的构思，这些信息被他们传播出去，我就被抓捕了。
张：谢老，出狱后，您近况如何？
谢：我出狱后状态还是比较好的。2023年2月20日突发糖尿病，我的弟弟对我的帮助很大，病情虽然有所缓解，但轻微后遗症还是存在，不得不继续服药。我现在一个人住，之前的家人也挺好。周末我会去教会做礼拜。
张：您对我们这些年轻人有什么想说的话吗？
谢：人品好、有教养的年轻人一定要勇敢的联合，我觉得中国人最缺的就是勇敢联合的精神，大家只要联合起来，优秀的同胞越来越多,发挥自己的特长，那我们就一定能够竞争出一个民主自由的社会。
年轻人要根据他们自身的专业、追求、志向，有伟大志向的我们就可以引导、启发、激励他们。
年轻人也要学以致用，学习德国的经济如何发展的，美国的三权分立如何建立的，不停地学习，运用起来，中国的民主道路才有希望。
张：谢老，您经历了那么多，如果再来一次的话您在民运这条路上还会这样做吗？
谢：要善始善终，做一个决定、做一个伟大的事业，就不要后悔，我对我所作的事情是不后悔的，并且我有圆满胜利的信心，我知道这是一个历史的大趋势，我们要把民主事业继续做下去，联络更多人品好、有文化、有知识的年轻人，我们就能取得胜利。我們就能竞争出一個真正民主自由的社会，我们竞争就能贏得民心。
记者语：采访至此，我深知笔墨难以完全承载谢长发先生走过的风雨与苦难。他的坚守与信仰，在与专制抗衡的历史的长河中已经留下不可磨灭的痕迹。
前路依旧险阻，而正是有谢老这样的人存在，中国的民主理想才从未熄灭。谢老在采访最后对年轻人和理想国的期待，也是一代代坚守在中国守护公义的志士的愿望。
愿读到这篇采访的朋友们，在心中点燃属于自己的微光，薪火相传。
（照片为1998年中国民主党组党时期的谢长发先生（左一），在杭州拍摄，后排中为毛庆祥先生，后排右为朱虞夫先生）
Exclusive Interview with Xie Changfa
— A Pioneer Who Holds the Candle Through the Long Dark Night
Interviewer: Zhang ZhijunRecording: Chang KunTranscription: Lin XiaolongBackground Research: Chen TingExecutive Editor: Luo ZhifeiTranslator: Lyu Feng
Mr. Xie Changfa is one of the driving forces behind the relaunch of the China Democracy Party’s journal Opposition Party and serves as one of its Honorary Chief Editors. In this issue, the interviewer, together with Opposition Party magazine, explores Mr. Xie’s path of democracy and experiences the hardships of his journey.
In 1998, with the founding of the China Democracy Party, Mr. Xie Changfa served as the party’s regional leader in Hunan, tirelessly advocating for multi-party competition, political reform, and democratic elections. Due to his active involvement, in 2009 the Chinese Communist authorities convicted him on the charge of “subversion of state power” and sentenced him to 13 years in prison. Mr. Xie is the China Democracy Party member who received the longest sentence in the case, and he steadfastly refused to plead guilty or have a single day reduced from his term.
During the 1998 party-building movement, Mr. Xie stood at the forefront. He traveled across regions, held discussions, organized demonstrations, and applied for official registration. In Hunan alone, several activists were sentenced, including Tong Shidong, Liao Shihua, Zhang Shanguang, Bai Xiaomao, He Zhaohui, and Li Wangyang. Mr. Xie narrowly escaped the first wave of arrests, and afterward, he resolutely took up the responsibility of leading the Hunan Preparatory Committee of the China Democracy Party.
In the Spring Festival of 2008, when pro-democracy friends from seven or eight provinces and cities gathered, the Changsha “national security” police issued severe warnings. As a tactical move, Mr. Xie gave up hosting that gathering, with the sole purpose of securing more freedom of movement for himself so that he could continue promoting the organization of the China Democracy Party’s first national congress.
In China, engaging in the democracy movement requires a spirit of sacrifice, and Mr. Xie dedicated himself to it wholeheartedly. He accepted a life of poverty and provided financial assistance to no fewer than a hundred fellow activists, in amounts totaling over 100,000 yuan.
When the journalist connected with Mr. Xie for this interview, what appeared was an elderly man with white hair but a youthful face, speaking with vigor. Imprisonment had not eroded his heroic spirit. In conversation, one could once again glimpse the spirited young man of the party-building years—walking upright, resolute, and unyielding on the path forward alone.
(Photo: The journalist in a video call with Mr. Xie Changfa, during which constant interference was present.)
Zhang Zhijun: Mr. Xie, peace and health to you! You are now an Honorary Chief Editor of Opposition Party magazine and one of the main driving forces behind its relaunch. How do you view Opposition Party?
Mr. Xie: If we want to enter a truly democratic society, we must have our own theoretical publication. Theory is like a lighthouse, and Opposition Party provides such thought—it illuminates the road ahead for the Chinese people and points the way toward future possibilities.
Zhang: Did you ever read the early issues of Opposition Party while you were still inside China?
Xie: Yes, I did. Zhu Yufu gave me the magazine. At that time, I thought it was excellent! Since the China Democracy Party is a party competing with the Communist Party of China, it must have its own publication—that gave us a theoretical foundation.
Zhang: When the Hunan Provincial Preparatory Committee of the China Democracy Party was established, what was going through your mind?
Xie: I had reached private agreements with leaders in Zhejiang, Hunan, Hubei, Shanghai, Beijing, Guizhou, and other places that we must bravely establish the party. In 1998, because I was relatively active publicly, we went ahead and formed the Hunan branch of the Democracy Party. We submitted an application to the Hunan Provincial Civil Affairs Department to register the Hunan Preparatory Committee of the China Democracy Party. Four of us went together—myself, a professor from Beihang University, a professor from Changsha University, and another from Xiangtan University.
Zhang: When founding the party, you did many things to advance the process, such as traveling to connect with activists in different regions. What forged this ability of yours?
Xie: Back in 1983, when I was an assistant engineer at the Changsha Steel Plant, I founded the “Good Friends Society.” I even hand-wrote its sign with a calligraphy brush. At that time, over 20 democrats came together. The purpose was to seek like-minded comrades, travel, and exchange ideas. During those gatherings, I gradually learned organizational skills. Organization is important, but the prerequisite is good character—without that, you cannot win people’s trust. Such associations laid the foundation for party building. Founding a party and forming associations follow the same principle.
Zhang: What factors made you realize China’s systemic problems and pushed you onto the road of democracy?
Xie: While studying at Central South University, I kept thinking: Article 2 of the PRC Constitution states that all power belongs to the people. Article 35 says citizens enjoy freedom of publication, speech, assembly, and association. We were the first to apply to register a political party in accordance with the Constitution and to form a preparatory committee. But the Communist Party of China did not honor its word—it deceived us. I have studied history extensively and understand that “trust is the safeguard of the nation and the peace of the people.” A country that does not keep its word will face great trouble.
Zhang: You were sentenced to two years of re-education through labor for supporting the students of 1989. How did you oppose the Communist suppression at that time?
Xie: On February 28, 1989, the Changsha Municipal Party Committee mobilized staff from factories to rural poverty-alleviation projects. I was assigned as an engineer to Guandu Township in Liuyang City. I often listened to Voice of America broadcasts and got outside information. On the morning of June 4, when I heard the “gunfire” in Beijing, I realized a revolution might be beginning. Around 7 a.m., I went to Liuyang High School, where I knew several male students. I showed them my work ID and encouraged them: “Beijing has already suppressed the student movement. We must rise up, because we are students too.”
Zhang: Did you only encourage them, and then get arrested? How did the authorities find out what you were doing?
Xie: Those students spontaneously donated money to buy pens, ink, and paper, and wrote many slogans on the streets of Guandu: “Oppose the suppression of the student movement,” “Oppose dictatorship,” and so on. On December 16, the head and deputy head of a section of the Changsha State Security Bureau took me from my factory to the city’s No. 1 Detention Center. I was sentenced to two years of re-education through labor. The section chief who arrested me was named Luo Haijiao.
Zhang: Was there anything especially unforgettable during your time in the labor camp?
Xie: According to the system then, they withheld part of my factory wages to “offset” my sentence—that was a form of corruption. In our cell there were 45 political prisoners from across the country, including professors. Compared to ordinary criminals, our labor was relatively light—we only worked half-days, while the others had to work all day.
Zhang: During your second imprisonment of thirteen years, did you experience mistreatment?
Xie: The guards read my writings—one even admired me—so my treatment was relatively decent. I also received outside support: people sent funds, and with money you could buy better food inside prison. Plus, I know how to deal with people, so most treated me well. Early on, I was slapped once.
At Chishan Prison in Hunan, a guard named Liu Hong once struck me on the head with a plastic board. It wasn’t heavy, but it was malicious. My younger brother bravely protested by holding banners at Yuelu Mountain’s Yunlu Palace and outside the prison gate reading “Challenge the wicked guard Liu Hong one-on-one!” Because of this action and outside support, I heard both the prison warden and Liu Hong were transferred, though I don’t know if they were punished.
Another activist I knew, Li Wangyang from Shaoyang, was tortured until he was deaf and blind. Those with better finances could survive more easily; the poor sometimes could not bear it and attempted suicide.
Zhang: What was your mental state when you were arrested for party building?
Xie: My mindset was good. As the Buddhists say: “If I don’t go to hell, who will?” Since I had chosen this road, I was prepared. During my first re-education, one cadre admired something I wrote: “If an excellent party does not have a strong institution to supervise it, it will eventually become corrupt and degenerate.” And: “A party that forbids truth will collapse.” I was doing the right thing, so I had no regrets.
Zhang: Mr. Zhu Yufu once said you invested the money you earned from business entirely into the democratic movement.
Xie: In 1999, I started small businesses and traveled to 26 provinces and regions to encourage others. I majored in rolling steel in university, so I used my expertise to promote and sell nationwide. On those trips, I also talked about policy and party building. To achieve great things, one must work tirelessly. To attract talent, one must grow like a snowball. We must grasp the tide of history.
Zhang: What was the main charge the CCP used when sentencing you to 13 years?
Xie: “Subversion of state power.” They saw me gathering many people and traveling to so many places. From 1999 to June 2008, I worked relatively covertly.
Zhang: For nearly a decade, they didn’t know what you were doing?
Xie: At first, they didn’t. Earlier, I met a student in Gansu named Wang Fengshan—his brother was the Party Secretary of Harbin. Wang told me about another activist, Yue Tianxiang, who had been sentenced to 10 years for “inciting subversion.” I invited them to Changsha on June 8. Wang, his brother, and Yue came. While eating and chatting, I discussed ideas for convening the Democracy Party’s first national congress. That information spread, and soon after, I was arrested.
Zhang: After being released, how have you been?
Xie: My condition has been fairly good. On February 20, 2023, I suddenly developed diabetes. My younger brother has helped me greatly. Although the illness has eased, I still have mild aftereffects and must continue taking medicine. I now live alone, but my family has been supportive. On weekends I attend church services.
Zhang: Do you have any words for young people today?
Xie: Young people of good character and proper upbringing must bravely unite. I think what Chinese people most lack is the spirit of courageous unity. As long as people unite and more and more excellent compatriots bring their strengths, we can compete to create a democratic and free society.
Young people should pursue their specialties and ideals, and those with great aspirations can be guided, inspired, and encouraged. They should also apply their learning—study how Germany developed its economy, how the U.S. established separation of powers, keep learning and applying. Only then will China’s democratic path have hope.
Zhang: Mr. Xie, after everything you’ve endured, if you could live your life again, would you take the same path in the democracy movement?
Xie: One must begin well and end well. If you choose a great cause, you must never regret it. I do not regret my actions, and I have confidence in ultimate victory. I know this is a great historical trend. We must continue the democratic cause, unite more young people of good character, culture, and knowledge, and we will win. We will be able to compete for a truly democratic and free society—we will win the hearts of the people.
Journalist’s Note:At this point in the interview, I realized that words alone cannot fully capture the storms and hardships Mr. Xie has endured. His steadfastness and faith have already left an indelible mark in the long struggle against tyranny. The road ahead remains perilous, yet it is precisely because of people like Mr. Xie that the dream of democracy in China has never been extinguished. His final words to the youth and his vision of an ideal nation reflect the hopes of generations of righteous men and women who have guarded justice in China.
May those who read this interview ignite their own small light within, passing the flame forward.
(Photo: Mr. Xie Changfa, far left, during the founding period of the China Democracy Party in 1998, taken in Hangzhou. In the back row, center is Mr. Mao Qingxiang, and on the right is Mr. Zhu Yufu.)
