采访：林小龙 资料整理：赵杰
编辑：张致君 责任编辑：朱虞夫 翻译：戈冰
在当今中国政治言论空间持续收紧、公共表达不断被压缩的现实中，公开讨论制度问题本身已成为一种风险行为。在这样的环境下，仍坚持表达独立政治观点的人，往往要付出沉重代价。郭泉，曾任南京师范大学副教授，社会学硕士、哲学博士，正是这样一位在高压之下持续发声的学者型异议人士。
与许多仅停留在学术讨论层面的知识分子不同，郭泉将其政治理念直接付诸实践。他并不满足于抽象地讨论“民主”“自由”等概念，而是以极为明确甚至具有挑战性的方式提出：真正的制度核心不在于修辞，而在于“多党竞选”。在他看来，所有可以被专制体制反复包装和利用的政治话语——无论是“民主”“法治”还是“宪政”——如果缺乏真实的权力竞争机制，都不过是对权力的再装饰。
2007年，郭泉在互联网发起组建“中国新民党”，公开主张以多党竞选取代一党专政。这一举动迅即触碰政治禁区，使其成为当局重点打压对象。2008年，他以“颠覆国家政权罪”被判刑十年；出狱后短短一年多时间，再次因言论问题被捕并被判刑四年，直至2024年才得以再次走出监狱。前后超过十年的牢狱生涯，并未使其沉默，反而使其立场更加激进、表达更加直接。
郭泉的特殊之处，在于他不仅是制度批评者，更是制度替代方案的明确倡导者。他将复杂的政治问题压缩为一个极具冲击力的判断：没有多党竞选，就不存在真正意义上的民主；一切不建立在权力竞争基础上的制度，最终都将滑向专制。这种高度简化但极具指向性的表达，使其观点在支持者与反对者之间都引发强烈反响。
在一个强调“稳定压倒一切”的政治环境中，郭泉的持续表达本身，已构成一种对现实秩序的挑战。他的经历，也折射出当代中国公共知识分子所面临的共同困境：在表达与风险之间反复权衡，在沉默与发声之间作出选择。
本次采访中，郭泉不仅回顾了自身从学术研究走向政治表达的思想路径，也进一步阐述了其对专制体制、外部干预以及中国未来政治转型的判断。他的观点或许激烈，甚至具有争议，但在日益收缩的公共空间中，这样的声音本身，已成为值得记录的一部分。
林小龙: 郭先生您好，鉴于目前国内的严峻政治言论环境，关于本次采访您的问题，你愿意回答就回答,不愿意回答,你换个题目就是了。
首先我想您这边能不能简单介绍一下您的一个成长的经历和家庭背景,对您的成年后的价值观会产生过什么影响,以至于后来您在那样一个政治高压的社会敢于公开的发表自己的政治观点并也为此付出巨大的代价。
郭泉先生: 我先简单介绍一下我自己，我是1987年上大学,所以经历过八九六四运动,但是我不是在北京,不是在天安门,我们在全国各地,在各自的地方,也就是参加过那次的运动。那么之后呢,也是经历过，接受过一些民主思想的熏陶,后来90年大学毕业后带着这些民主思想后就走向工作岗位,它就会对我的日常生活产生了很大影响。
先是在企业政府里面工作,那么就发现很多社会问题,如果不用民主的方式进行解决,那就解决不了,虽然专制制度它很能解决一些问题,但是它在民主决策上面是有很大很大问题的。所以我93年就考了南京大学社会学的硕士,在这个社会学硕士的学习过程中,我更加发现民主制度会给社会带来一种运作方式,但是专制不行。所以说硕士毕业之后,然后读博士,这个时候是在法院工作,在南京市法院工作。那么在法院的审判工作当中,也发现很多很多的,其实社会问题是专制体制造成的。所以后来我就又去读了哲学博士,在读哲学博士基本上形成的观念
就是,政治它跟哲学是密不可分的。也就是说,如果不用哲学来思考政治,那么政治就会走向极端。
所以说在96年到99年读哲学博士,这三年就形成了民主观,也就是普世价值。那么这个普世价值呢,现在整个社会也在讲普世价值,但是比如说自由,民主,我认为自由民主这四个字,专制者它也会拿来忽悠人,它也会用说：我们是社会主义民主,社会主义法治,甚至还有我们社会主义也是自由。所以我觉得这个不行,所以我把这个自由民主换成四个字,多党竞选,我认为只有多党竞选,才能制衡专制。
林小龙: 是的，几乎所有的反美的国家它都是专制的制度,它有一个共同特点,就是它不愿意多党竞选。
郭泉先生：所以这个是专制制度的死穴。我在我写的文章里面讲过这个问题，后来1999年博士毕业,我到南师大做博士后,在博士后研究的课题就是：自由主义文学,这个更加让我觉得,一切社会矛盾的根本原因,就是缺乏民主制度。所以后来做了博士后论文结束之后,留在南师大做副教授,在教学过程中,就逐渐地给同学们探讨民主制度,然后和他们一起研究中国未来的发展方向。最后逐渐到了2007年,就自己在网上发起了中国新民党。那么到2008年,就抓起来,被判刑,判了10年,那么整个这个过程呢,就是从发展到被捕,然后在监狱里10年,出来2018年,出来我的观点不仅没有改变,相反越来越成熟,越来越成熟。就是说多党竞选,哪怕有一万个,这不好,比如说效率的一种损耗,那不好啊，比如：是决策的缓慢,或者其他对于专制制度的劣势，但是多党竞争的制度都要比专制要好。这是一个确定的概念,就是民主制、多党竞选的民主制,一定比专制要好。所以你专制制度怎么伪装自己,说我们是社会主义民主,全过程民主,等等,那肯定是不如多党竞选的。这是肯定的。所以到现在2020年,就出狱一年两个月,又被捕了,又说我是在煽动宣传颠覆国家政权罪,又判了4年,到2024年出来。出来之后,我没有任何改变,还是在写文章,包括现在,我认为关注国际政治的民主发展,对中国将来是有很大的一个借鉴和促进作用的。所以我现在我的文章已经不大关注中国内部的事务,因为我觉得中国内部事务其实很简单,比如说什么食品问题啦、环境问题啦、这个维权问题啦,这些我认为这些东西如果用多党竞选,一切迎刃而解。
林小龙: 您的这个多党竞选理论是与宪政这个概念有什么区别,这两者有什么不一样的地方？
郭泉先生: 就现在,我们中国现在也讲我们国家也是宪政民主,但其实它不是多党竞争的。就是说,如果不是多党竞争,那你是什么宪政都没有用的。因为这可以就像我刚才讲的,民主、自由、宪政、法治,专制国家它也这样讲了。历史上秦始皇统治的时期,它也有秦朝的法律,它也可以说它是法治国家,皇权专制。所以,用多党竞争这四个字来替代一切,就是掩盖真相的那些名词,什么人权啊、自由啊、民主啊、法治啊、宪政啊,那些东西我认为全部都会被专制者利用。即使是希特勒活到现在,或者是慈禧太后活到现在,她也是。
林小龙: 对,要落在实处,落在实处就是四个字：多党竞选。
关于竞选,您认为,如果实现这个多党竞选,需要什么样的社会去变动或者推动,然后怎么样去实现这个呢？
郭泉先生: 过程呢,我现在我的感觉呢就是如果没有美国打击委内瑞拉,没有美国打击伊朗,这种方式是实现不了的。也就是说,如果美国不去把马杜罗抓到美国,那么委内瑞拉永远都是这种专制国家。那么,如果没有美国对伊朗发动的实施怒火行动,伊朗永远不可能走向民主。那么,同样是中国,也是现在有很多人认为,专制制度自己内部矛盾、内部斗争,会出现像蒋经国或者戈尔巴乔夫这种敢于推翻的专制制度的人，那种方式就是自动的通过党内内部的斗争走向民主,我认为不可能,所以必须借助外力，一定要来自外力的干预。
林小龙：但是我的了解的就是共产党,它是一个集体,它现在是一个集体在执行这个专
政,并不是一个人。如果就是把这个人,就是把一个总统,或者把习近平这个抓了以后,但依然不会影响这种专制体制,不会走到您说的那个多党竞选
郭泉先生: 我今天写的文章就谈到这个事情,就是说让一个领导人先走,根本不能动摇它整个管理体制的那种运行方式,就是说如果是川普总统这次把哈梅内伊杀死了,但是没有把革命卫队所有的管理层消灭的话,那没有用的,他换成他儿子就行了,他儿子还有什么弟弟啊,哥哥啊,甚至还有孙子啊。所以说,现在的问题已经不是让领导人先走,而是要让领导层全走,让整个管理体制全部消灭,才能够让老百姓去建立一个新的政权,一个新的政府。但是呢,在委内瑞拉这个问题上,川普总统选择了一个方法,就是先用了你原来的人,但是你原来那些人如果不是按照美国那种操作方式操作的话,美国照样把你清除掉。所以川普总统现在就是用委内瑞拉原来政府里面的一些人进行临时的操作,目的是为了过渡到最后多党竞选,这点是很明确的,就是他的现在临时政府是为了多党竞选做准备。
林小龙: 也就是说你认为：未来中国如果要实现多党竞选这条路，就必须依赖外部的力量干预。
郭泉: 对,就是只有外力,只有外力,否则不可能的,因为中国九千万党员,你去掉哪一个,那么
还有其他人,就会继续上台专政。
林小龙: 那您认为普通的老百姓如何参与这样的一个进程,如何贡献自己的一份
力量,在推动中国民主这个事情上去呢?
郭泉先生: 我觉得就是,就像我一样嘛,接受你们的采访嘛,和你们在海外的朋友们做朋友嘛,然后写文章,多介绍国外的一些情况,然后让国外的一些先进的制度,能让中国人知道。然后也要让我们这些在国内的人做的事情,让海外的人知道。这个就像什么呢?就是,如果一个新的政府要使用人的话,它当然要使用符合新的运行体制的人,不能使用原来的人的。所以说,我们这些人将来肯定是新社会要使用的人。所以说,我们现在在国内的人,如果你愿意成为新社会使用的力量,那么现在就要露出你的光芒，要准备好。
林小龙: 您認為這個進程會很快吗?
郭泉先生: 我个人认为还是很快的,因为中国经济现在越来越下滑,老百姓的生活很显然没有前几年好了。中国跟克林顿当时搞这个经济捆绑，那个时候经济非常好,现在基本上脱钩,断
链差不多了。经济非常不好,这就是一种内在的因素,就是说老百姓希望生活。然后,另外中国有一种这个扩张的这种意图,这种意图跟美国是冲突的,所以说必然未来中美冲突可能会以某种方式会发生。
从经济战发生到外交战,最后还是能发生成热战的。只要一旦热战爆发,那么中国就会发生变化,就会发生变化。所以现在看中国攻台,中国打台湾可能是解决问题的一个关键的时间点。所以我经常跟很多人开玩笑,我想如果中国不攻打台湾,那么中国就会永远这样,因为国际社会没有办法改变中国。那么,但是中国如果攻打台湾,那么很有可能这就是一个破局。比如说其他国家就会美日澳就会联合起来帮助台湾。如果中国不攻打台湾,那中国永远跟国际社会不会战斗,那不会战斗,那它永远能执政。所以说如果中国不发声攻台,很有可能,因为没有办法可以改变他,没有办法。中国老百姓可以讲,14亿人,14亿没有枪的人根本打不过10万有枪的。
林小龙: 对1989年,我们已经经历过了。
郭泉先生：对呀,所以那个伊朗9000万人根本打不过10万革命卫队,根本打不过。所
说,美国必须帮伊朗人民。如果美国不帮伊朗人民,伊朗永远永远被这个伊朗邪恶政权统治。
林小龙: 在您公开表达自己的政治关点后，您印象最深刻的是有什么样具体事件？因为您经历过很多困难和压力嘛,包括被逮捕，判刑过程中。
郭泉先生: 我最深刻的,就是总是社会上有很多人理解我。我觉得这个是我最开心,也是最让人鼓舞的地方。如果我做这个事,很多人不能理解,社会上人不能理解,那么我就觉得我做错了。如果是一部分人不理解,但是另外一部分人理解,多党竞选就是有人赞同你,有人支持你,要有人反对你,对吧，有人反对你,有人支持你,那我现在,我总是能发现有人支持我,这就够了。包括很多朋友,在我沒有收入的情況下,看我文章,看我一篇文章,打賞一元钱。錢雖然不多,但是就這樣子,也能夠讓我生存了,所以非常開心。
林小龙: 这个也是您持续这样做自己的一个观点,去形成一个动力。对,只要有人支持你,这就是动力, 我之前也对中国的一些大民众稍微有一点失望吧。但是听您这么说,我觉得还是我们
还是有一定的希望的。
郭泉先生: 现在可以讲就是改变。我们没有办法,没有什么改变的。你比如说：你要想帮老百姓维权,或者批评政府,那么很显然,马上就坐牢,这改变是不可能的。所以我现在就是说,我们现在能做的,我认为就是把自己这把宝剑打造成锋利,等待最后的时刻,我们要杀出去,要恢复这个宝剑的。所以说,现在的在国内的人应该多写文章,多接收你们的访谈,然后让社会上知道,比如说这个中国还有一个郭泉,还有一个某某某。那么将来这个社会发生变革之后,这些人要能用起来,要能用起来。比如说,我从2007年写文章,一直写到现在,除了坐牢的时间,其他时间一天一篇文章,一天一篇文章。那么整个国际社会都在关注,都知道我的思想始终没有发生变化。那么等到中国社会发生变化之后,那么我就是一个可以被用的人,被使用的人。至于放在什么岗位上使用,那个时候需要竞选,但是如果你在国内,你默默无闻,或者你有观点却没有文章,你怎么能接受别人的选择呢?你怎么参加?
林小龙: 对的。最后一点,您对接下来中国的一些年轻一代,您有什么想说的,或者一个期待?
郭泉先生：我不建议大家搞一些实体性的对抗运动,因为这个很显然,你只要稍微有一点活动就会被消失。
我建议大家第一个：就是了解中国现状,这个很关键。那么了解这个现状呢。
第二个：必须得出一个结论,就只有多党竞选才能解决这个问题,其他没有用。很多人讲改革开放,改革开放能解决这个问题,但是改革开放,它是在党内,是一种专制的延续方式,它并不是在根本上解决问题的。所以,根本上解决问题还是多党竞选,这点是明确无误的。
第三个：你要持续表达你的观点,而且要强化,强化就是每天都要有表达,这样才能到了一个新时代之后,你才有资本来参与竞选。因为最终,中国不是靠打打杀杀,像革命者,像那种成为领导人的,一定不是,一定是多党竞选。那多党竞选的一个核心,就是你曾经做过的事和你曾经的表达,这个才是最关键的。如果你曾经没有做过事,你只有表达也不行,因为别人会讲某某人只会说,不会做,所以说,又要有行动,又要有表达。当然,现在行动是很困难了,但是也要做一些行动,要有表达。最后还要跟国外建立好一种良好的关系,因为最终的中国一定是像委内瑞拉和美国,伊朗和美国最后的那种连接方式,它是建立在美国这个民主思想熏陶下的。中国一定的未来是这样子,它不可能是脱离美国搞的一个民主制度,这肯定不行的。比如现在欧洲,欧洲现在的民主制度就是脱离美国的一种民主制度,结果出问题了吧。你讲西班牙呀,法国呀,英国啊,他们都脱离美国来搞他们的民主,最后就搞成了一种类似于伊斯兰社会主义的东西,这个多可怕。
林小龙: 是的,感谢郭老师接受我们在野党杂志采访,也希望中国早日实现我们的多党执政制度，保重,再见。
编者按:
在本次访谈中，郭泉以其一贯鲜明而坚定的立场，反复强调“多党竞选”作为政治制度核心的重要性。在他看来，衡量一个制度是否具备民主性质的关键，并不在于其宣称的理念或标签，而在于是否存在真实、有效的权力竞争机制。相较于任何形式的专制体制，多党竞争不仅是一种制度安排，更是一种防止权力固化与滥用的根本性保障，是解决社会矛盾与实现公共利益的必要前提。
与此同时，郭泉对中国未来可能出现的变革路径也作出了明确而直接的判断。他认为，在现有权力结构高度稳固的情况下，单纯依赖内部演变难以撼动体制根基，国际格局的变化与外部力量的介入，将在某种程度上成为推动转型的重要变量。这一判断，既反映出其对现实结构的清醒认知，也体现出其对制度变迁路径的激进预设。
对于个体而言，郭泉特别强调“准备”的意义。他认为，制度的更替不会自动完成，它最终需要具体的人去参与、去承担、去构建。因此，持续表达、形成思想、积累公共记录，不仅是一种个人选择，更是一种面向未来的政治准备。在他看来，未来的新制度不会凭空产生，它需要一批早已完成自我塑造的人，作为其参与者与推动者。
更进一步，这种“表达本身”的意义，甚至在当下就已经成立。在一个表达受限、风险高企的环境中，发声不再只是意见的传递，而成为一种对沉默机制的突破。它既是对现实秩序的微小撬动，也是对未来可能性的提前书写。
尽管现实环境依然严峻，代价依然真实存在，但正如郭泉在访谈中所言，只要仍有人理解与支持，这种表达便不会是徒劳的。它所维系的，不只是个体的立场，更是一种尚未消失的公共精神。
而这种持续而稀缺的声音，也正构成了当下中国公共知识分子群体中，少见却未曾断裂的思想脉络。
Guo Quan: He was imprisoned for 14 years for one sentence
Interview: Lin Xiaolong Information compilation: Zhao Jie
Editor: Zhang Zhijun Editor-in-Chief: Zhu Yufu Translator: Ge Bing
In today’s reality where China’s political speech space continues to tighten and public expression is constantly compressed, openly discussing institutional issues has become a risky behavior in itself. In such an environment, those who still insist on expressing independent political views often have to pay a heavy price. Guo Quan, a former associate professor at Nanjing Normal University, holds a master’s degree in sociology and a doctorate in philosophy. He is exactly such a scholar-dissident who continues to speak out under high pressure.
Unlike many intellectuals who only stay at the level of academic discussion, Guo Quan puts his political ideas into direct practice. He was not content to discuss concepts such as “democracy ”“ freedom” in the abstract, but put it in an extremely clear and even challenging way: the true institutional core lies not in rhetoric but in “multi-party campaigning”. In his view, all political discourse ——whether “democracy ”“ rule of law” or “constitutionalism”—— that can be repeatedly packaged and exploited by authoritarian systems is nothing more than a re-decoration of power if it lacks real mechanisms for competing for power.
In 2007, Guo Quan initiated the formation of the “China New People’s Party” on the Internet, openly advocating multi-party elections to replace one-party dictatorship. This move quickly touched a political no-go zone, making it a key target of suppression by the authorities. In 2008, he was sentenced to ten years in prison “for subversion of state power”; just over a year after his release from prison, he was arrested again for speech and sentenced to four years in prison, and was not allowed to leave prison again until 2024. His imprisonment of more than ten years has not silenced him, but has made his position more radical and his expression more direct.
Guo Quan is special in that he is not only a critic of the system, but also a clear advocate of institutional alternatives. He compressed complex political issues into a powerful judgment: without multi-party elections, there can be no true democracy; all systems that are not based on power competition will eventually slide into authoritarianism. This highly simplified but highly directional expression has caused its views to resonate strongly between supporters and opponents.
In a political environment that emphasizes “stability overrides everything”, Guo Quan’s continued expression itself has constituted a challenge to the order of reality. His experience also reflects the common dilemma faced by contemporary Chinese public intellectuals: repeatedly weighing expression and risk, and making choices between silence and voice.
In this interview, Guo Quan not only reviewed his own ideological path from academic research to political expression, but also further elaborated on his judgment on the authoritarian system, external intervention and China’s future political transformation. His views may be fierce, even controversial, but in increasingly shrinking public spaces, such voices themselves have become a part of the record.
Lin Xiaolong: Hello Mr. Guo, given the current severe political speech environment in China, regarding your question in this interview, you can answer it if you are willing to answer it, and if you are not willing to answer it, just change the topic.
First of all, I would like to ask if you could briefly introduce a growing experience and family background of yours, and what impact it had on your values as an adult, so that later you dared to express your political views openly in such a politically high-pressure society and paid a huge price for it.
Mr. Guo Quan: Let me first briefly introduce myself. I went to college in 1987, so I experienced the August 964 Movement. However, I am not in Beijing, not in Tiananmen Square. We are in various parts of the country and in our respective places, that is, we participated in that movement. So what happened after that was also an experience, being influenced by some democratic ideas, and then after graduating from university in 1990 with these democratic ideas and heading to work, it would have a great impact on my daily life.
First, when working in corporate government, we will find that many social problems cannot be solved if they are not solved in a democratic way. Although the authoritarian system can solve some problems, it has great problems in democratic decision-making. So I took the master’s degree in sociology from Nanjing University in 1993. During the study process of this master’s degree in sociology, I discovered even more that democratic systems will bring a way of operating to society, but autocracy is not an option. So after graduating with a master’s degree, I went on to study for a doctorate, at which time I worked in the court and at the Nanjing Municipal Court. Then, in the court’s trial work, we also found many, many things. In fact, social problems are caused by authoritarian systems. So then I went to study for a PhD, and the concepts that were basically formed while studying for a PhD
That is, politics and philosophy are inseparable. That is, if politics is not thought of in terms of philosophy, then politics will go to extremes.
So, from 1996 to 1999, when I studied for a doctorate in philosophy, I formed a view of democracy, that is, universal values, in those three years. So what about this universal value, the whole society is also talking about universal values now, but for example, freedom, democracy, I think the four words freedom and democracy will also be used by despots to deceive people. It will also say: we are socialist democracy, socialist rule of law, and even our socialism is freedom. So I thought this was not okay, so I replaced this liberal democracy with four words, multi-party campaign. I think only multi-party campaign can check and balance authoritarianism.
Lin Xiaolong: Yes, almost all anti-American countries have an authoritarian system. One common feature is that they are unwilling to run for multiple parties.
Mr. Guo Quan: So this is the death hole of the authoritarian system. I talked about this issue in the article I wrote. Later, after graduating with a doctorate in 1999, I went to South Normal University as a postdoctoral fellow. The topic of my postdoctoral research was: liberal literature. This made me feel even more that the fundamental reason for all social contradictions is the lack of democratic systems. So after completing his postdoctoral thesis, he stayed at South Normal University as an associate professor. During the teaching process, he gradually discussed the democratic system with his classmates and then studied China’s future development direction with them. Finally, in 2007, he launched the China New People’s Party online. So by 2008, I was arrested, sentenced, and sentenced for 10 years. What about the whole process, which was from development to arrest, then 10 years in prison, and then coming out in 2018, my opinion not only did not change, but on the contrary became more and more mature and mature. That is, multi-party elections, even if there are even 10,000, are not good. For example, it is a loss of efficiency, which is not good. For example, it is slow decision-making or other disadvantages to authoritarian systems. However, the system of multi-party competition is better than authoritarianism. This is a certain concept, that is, democracy, democracy with multi-party elections, must be better than autocracy. So how do you disguise yourself as an authoritarian system, saying that we are socialist democracy, whole-process democracy, etc., is definitely not as good as multi-party campaigning. That’s for sure. So now in 2020, I have been released from prison for one year and two months, and was arrested again. I was also accused of inciting propaganda to subvert state power. I was sentenced to another four years and will be released in 2024. After coming out, I haven’t changed at all. I am still writing articles, including now. I think paying attention to the democratic development of international politics will be a great reference and promotion for China in the future. So now my articles don’t pay much attention to internal affairs in China, because I think internal affairs in China are actually very simple, such as the food issue, the environmental issue, and the rights protection issue. I think if these things are used in multi-party elections, everything will be solved.
Lin Xiaolong: What is the difference between your multi-party campaign theory and the concept of constitutionalism, and what is the difference between the two?
Mr. Guo Quan: Right now, we in China also say that our country is also a constitutional democracy, but in fact it is not multi-party competition. That is, if it is not multi-party competition, then it is useless to have any constitutional government. Because this can be said as I just said, democracy, freedom, constitutionalism, the rule of law, and it is also said in the case of authoritarian countries. During the period of Qin Shi Huang’s rule in history, it also had the laws of the Qin Dynasty. It can also be said that it was a country ruled by law and had absolute imperial power. So, replacing everything with the four words multi-party competition is the nouns that cover up the truth, such as human rights, freedom, democracy, rule of law, constitutionalism, and I think all of these things will be used by despots. Even if Hitler lived to this day, or the Empress Dowager Cixi lived to this day, she did.
Lin Xiaolong: Yes, we must be realistic. Realistic means four words: multi-party campaign.
Regarding the campaign, what kind of social changes or promotion do you think are needed to achieve this multi-party campaign, and how can we achieve this?
Mr. Guo Quan: What about the process, what I feel now is that this approach cannot be achieved without the United States striking Venezuela and the United States striking Iran. That is, if the United States does not catch Maduro in the United States, then Venezuela will always be this kind of authoritarian country. Iran, then, could never have moved towards democracy without the US-led Operation Imposing Rage against Iran. So, it is also China, and many people now believe that the autocratic system has its own internal contradictions and internal struggles, and there will be people like Chiang Ching-kuo or Gorbachev who dare to overthrow the autocratic system. That way, people like Chiang Ching-kuo or Gorbachev will automatically move towards democracy through internal struggles within the party. I think it is impossible, so we must use external forces and must intervene from external forces.
Lin Xiaolong: But what I understand is the Communist Party. It is a collective. It is now a collective that implements this special
Zheng is not a person. If we arrest this person, a president, or Xi Jinping, but it will not affect this authoritarian system and will not lead to the multi-party campaign you mentioned
Mr. Guo Quan: The article I wrote today talks about this, which is that letting a leader go first will not shake the way the entire management system operates. It is that if President Trump kills Khamenei this time but does not eliminate all the management of the Revolutionary Guard, then it is useless. He can just replace him with his son What younger brothers, older brothers, and even grandchildren does his son have. So, the problem now is not to let the leaders go first, but to let the leadership go all the way and the entire management system be eliminated, so that the people can establish a new regime and a new government. But what about the Venezuelan issue, President Trump chose a method, which is to use your original people first, but if your original people did not operate in the same way as the United States, the United States would still eliminate you. So President Trump is now using some people in Venezuela’s original government to conduct temporary operations in order to transition to the final multi-party election. This is very clear, that his current temporary government is preparing for a multi-party election.
Lin Xiaolong: In other words, you believe that if China wants to achieve multi-party elections in the future, it must rely on external forces to intervene.
Guo Quan: Yes, there is only external force, only external force, otherwise it is impossible, because of China’s 90 million party members, which one do you want to remove, then
There are others who will continue to come to power.
Lin Xiaolong: Then how do you think ordinary people can participate in such a process and contribute their part
What is the power behind promoting democracy in China?
Mr. Guo Quan: I think it is just like me, to accept interviews with you, to be friends with your friends overseas, and then write articles to introduce more about the situation abroad, and then let the Chinese know about some advanced systems abroad. Then let those of us who are at home do things so that people overseas can know about them. What is this like? That is, if a new government wants to use people, it must of course use people who are in line with the new operating system and cannot use the original people. So, we are definitely the ones that the new society will use in the future. So, we are here in the country now, if you are willing to be a force for use in the new society, then show your light now and be ready.
Lin Xiaolong: Do you think this journey will be fast?
Mr. Guo Quan: Personally, I think it will be very fast because China’s economy is declining more and more, and people’s lives are obviously not as good as in previous years. China and Clinton were doing this economic bundling at the time. The economy was very good at that time, but now it is basically decoupled and broken
The chain is almost there. The economy is very bad, which is an inherent factor, that is, people want to live. Then, China has this intention to expand, and this intention is in conflict with the United States, so it is inevitable that the Sino-US conflict may occur in some way in the future.
From economic war to diplomatic war, and finally hot war can still occur. As long as once the hot war breaks out, then China will change, it will change. So now looking at China’s attack on Taiwan, China’s attack on Taiwan may be a key time point for resolving the problem. So I often joke with many people that if China does not attack Taiwan, then China will always be like this because the international community has no way to change China. Well, but if China attacks Taiwan, then there is a good chance that this will be a breakthrough. For example, other countries will join forces with the United States, Japan and Australia to help Taiwan. If China does not attack Taiwan, then China will never fight the international community, will never fight, and will always be able to govern. So if China doesn’t speak out against Taiwan, it’s very likely, because there’s no way to change him, no way. The Chinese people can say that 1.4 billion people, 1.4 billion people without guns, can’t fight 100,000 people with guns.
Lin Xiaolong: For 1989, we have already experienced it.
Mr. Guo Quan: Yes, so Iran’s 90 million people can’t defeat the 100,000 Revolutionary Guards at all. What
Said, the United States must help the Iranian people. If the United States does not help the Iranian people, Iran will always be ruled by this evil Iranian regime.
Lin Xiaolong: After you publicly expressed your political concerns, what specific events impressed you most were? Because you have experienced a lot of difficulties and pressures, including being arrested and being sentenced.
Mr. Guo Quan: What is most profound about me is that there are always many people in society who understand me. I think this is what makes me happiest and most inspiring. If I do this thing and many people don’t understand it, and people in society don’t understand it, then I feel that I have done it wrong. If some people don’t understand, but another part of people understand, multi-party campaigning means that some people agree with you, some people support you, and some people have to oppose you, right, some people oppose you, and some people support you, then now, I can always find that some people support me, and that’s enough. Including many friends, when I have no income, I read my articles, read my articles, and pay one yuan. There’s not much money, but it’s the same thing that can help me survive, so I’m very concerned.
Lin Xiaolong: This is also your point of view to continue doing this to form a driving force. Yes, as long as there are people supporting you, that is the motivation. I was also a little disappointed with some big people in China before. But hearing you say that, I think it’s still us
There is still some hope.
Mr. Guo Quan: Now we can talk about change. We have no way, nothing has changed. You say, for example: if you want to help the people defend their rights or criticize the government, then obviously, you will be imprisoned immediately and this change is impossible. So I’m saying now, what we can do now, I think it’s to make this sword of our own sharp and wait for the final moment, we’re going to kill it and restore this sword. So, people in China now should write more articles, receive more interviews from you, and let society know that, for example, there is another Guo Quan and another so-and-so in this China. Then after the changes in this society in the future, these people must be able to use it and be able to use it. For example, I have been writing articles since 2007 and have been writing articles ever since. Except for the time I was in jail, I have written articles every day and every day. Then the entire international community is paying attention and knows that my thoughts have never changed. Then after the changes in Chinese society, then I am a person who can be used, a person who can be used. As for what position to use it in, you need to run for election at that time, but if you are in the country, you are unknown, or you have an opinion but no articles, how can you accept other people’s choices? How do you participate?
Lin Xiaolong: Yes. Finally, what do you want to say or expect about some of China’s younger generation?
Mr. Guo Quan: I don’t recommend everyone to engage in some physical confrontation movement, because obviously, if you have even the slightest activity, you will disappear.
I suggest that the first one is: to understand the current situation in China, which is very critical. So understand the current situation.
Second: One conclusion must be drawn, that only multi-party campaigning can solve this problem, and the rest is useless. Many people talk about reform and opening up, and reform and opening up can solve this problem, but reform and opening up, it is within the party and is a way to continue authoritarianism. It is not fundamentally solving the problem. So, it is clear that the fundamental solution is multi-party campaigning.
The third one: you have to express your views continuously and strengthen them. Strengthening means expressing them every day so that after a new era, you will have the capital to participate in the campaign. Because in the end, China does not rely on fighting and killing. If it becomes a leader like a revolutionary, it must not be a multi-party campaign. One of the core things about multi-party campaigns is what you have done and what you have expressed, and that is the most critical. If you have never done something, you can’t just express it, because others will tell you that someone can only say and not do it, so there must be action and expression. Of course, it is difficult to act now, but some action must be taken and expressed. Finally, we must establish good relations with foreign countries, because the final China must be like Venezuela and the United States, Iran and the United States, the last way to connect. It was built on the influence of American democratic ideas. This is the future of China. It cannot be a democratic system separated from the United States. This is certainly not possible. For example, in Europe now, the current democratic system in Europe is a democratic system that is separated from the United States. As a result, something went wrong. You talk about Spain, France, and Britain. They all broke away from the United States to pursue their democracy, and ended up with something similar to Islamic socialism. How terrible this is.
Lin Xiaolong: Yes, thank you to Teacher Guo for accepting our interview in the opposition party magazine. I also hope that China will realize our multi-party governance system as soon as possible. Take care and goodbye.
Editor’s Note:
In this interview, Guo Quan, with his usual clear and firm stance, repeatedly emphasized the importance of “multi-party campaigning” as the core of the political system. In his view, the key to measuring whether a system is democratic lies not in its stated ideas or labels, but in whether there are real and effective mechanisms for competing for power. Compared with any form of authoritarian system, multi-party competition is not only an institutional arrangement, but also a fundamental guarantee to prevent the consolidation and abuse of power. It is an essential prerequisite for resolving social contradictions and realizing the public interest.
At the same time, Guo Quan also made a clear and direct judgment on the possible future change path for China. He believes that with the existing power structure highly stable, relying solely on internal evolution will not be able to shake the institutional foundation. Changes in the international landscape and the intervention of external forces will become important variables in promoting transformation to some extent. This judgment reflects both its clear understanding of the structure of reality and its radical presupposition of the path of institutional change.
For individuals, Guo Quan particularly emphasizes the meaning of “preparation”. He believes that the replacement of systems will not be automatic; it ultimately requires specific people to participate, take on, and build. Therefore, continuous expression, thought formation, and accumulation of public records are not only a personal choice, but also a political preparation for the future. In his view, the new system of the future will not emerge out of thin air. It will require a group of people who have already completed self-molding as its participants and promoters.
Furthermore, the meaning of this “expression itself” is already established even in the present moment. In an environment where expression is limited and risks are high, speaking out is no longer just a transmission of opinions, but a breakthrough to the mechanism of silence. It is both a small leverage on the order of reality and an advance writing of future possibilities.
Although the real environment remains severe and the costs are still real, as Guo Quan said in the interview, as long as there are still people who understand and support it, this expression will not be in vain. What it maintains is not just the individual’s position, but also a public spirit that has not disappeared.
This continuous and scarce voice also constitutes a rare but unbroken ideological vein among China’s current public intellectual community.
